Ditch the girls...

[Valhalla]

Tim and David why are all the guitar girls popping up again?
When you guys told us about the V-Book or whatever it was, we asked you to stop using the guitar girls. Many of us are against the guitar girls but why are you bringing them back all of a sudden?

Please remove them they get annoying when they keep popping up in the middle of the lesson.

[EVH5150]

Come on man, who doesn't like the occasional hot chick?

[ez-one]

I remember when it was asked, but I don't remember that many people complaining, I for one thought for marketing to all different people including different countries it would probably be better to drop them, but I read most of those posts and very few if any said that they were offended or anything like that.

[AndJustice4All612]

WHO CARES?!? don wanna see them? then don't look, or close ur eyes or somethin

[angelicrock]

WHO CARES?!? don wanna see them? then don't look, or close ur eyes or somethin

I dont think that is his point. His point is that other offensive material is censored on the forums such as profanity, so if a couple people are offended by this image it should be censored too. I dont really care about the image myself, but I do see the double standard.

[vaxwell]

Yeah, I don't want to be a prude, but I think you should get rid of the girls too. From a marketing point of view, are you trying to attract members through your talent (and you do have a LOT of talent) as a guitar teacher, or attract people by flaunting half naked girls that have nothing to do with your course/lessons? As a female, the girls don't really make me feel at ease and they almost make me feel left out.

To all the boys wanting to keep the girls, would you feel the same if the picture was of a man wearing a thong and holding the guitar seductively? I think you'd feel slightly ill at ease, too.

[tim]

Thanks for the Feedback, both Good and Bad

Let me share my thoughts with you and also We do take all this feedback into consideration

In order to gain exposure to the site I will experiment with various ads and techniques

In marketing there is a saying TEST TEST TEST

I see both sides let me share mine

When I go to barnes and noble and view the guitar magazines on the shelf
In many cases there is a very HOT Bikini clad model etc on the cover

So I am not introducing anything groundbreaking here

Having a sexy model pose with a guitar is far different than banning profanity on this forum

Youtube is our marketing tool
Chicks = clicks is a phrase i coined and it does work

Now many of you have been with us since the beginning and you know and respect David's methods

Let me ask you this if the picture draws interest to our site and then they see and hear David and go WOW this guy can teach

MISSION accomplished

We recieved 59,000 clicks on the video I added the first girl to in less than a week

many other videos receive well under that

I of course value our members but having a sexy girl with a guitar I hope you do not view as profanity

This is an open forum and we are open to all ideas




ROCK ON

Tim

[vaxwell]

I can see your point Tim. I still don't agree with the method, but you hold the piece of paper with the numbers on it and apparently they speak for themselves :) Although, how many of those 59,000 clicks were from serious guitar players realising that yours and David's work was quality teaching, and how many were from (add your own word here. I don't want to offend anyone) who were just looking for hot chicks?

And what about the random placement of girls in videos like Tim's brother's bass video? It wasn't at the start, to draw your attention in to the video. It was smack bang in the middle, at 4:18. My attention was already on the techniques being learnt in the video. I had already made up my mind that the teaching was quality work and I was interested in looking for similiar videos but the girl was a really bizzare interruption.

Personally I don't think you need the girls to create marketing hype, especially when word of mouth speaks so highly of you,

[tim]

Thanks for the points

If you checked up on the person you mentioned he attacks anyone who get popular on youtube LISA NOVA and many others and in his spam broadcasts to anyone popular he makes the same ghost claims

This person claims his accomplishments being the most banned person on youtube if you checked his spam broadcast you could read that

the hits were definetly not from that person

The reason the picture is in the middle is that is where youtube takes a snaphot of the image at that time
If 59,000 people click and even 1 percent knows a person who plays guitar and tells then to check out this excellent teacher or our channel and they can then begin to learn playing the guitar for free on youtube I think that is a small price to pay having a 4 second image of a sexy girl holding a guitar but that is just my opinion



TIm

[pico1009]

Hi

I like the Girl - but not within the Lesson - brings my Mind out of Guitarplaying ;):rolleyes:

Horst

[jimmylegs]

I have nothing against the girls. I haven't noticed any before the Bass video and people mentioning the vbook, but not quite sure if they fit in the Guitar Lessons. There are plenty of people who came to the site and watched the videos regardless of girls being in it or not. Also you see a couple new people a day using the forum. No advertising campaign beats - Word of Mouth. Anyway there are other sites for that type of viewing.

For marketing purposes I can see your point, but I think you guys have a pretty good fan base already to not have to use the chick=clicks method. Free give aways=clicks also, it doesn't rhyme but works just as well. Like Vax said, how many of those clicks were probably looking for guitar lessons, I'll bet less than 1/2. Also another thing she said, which is a scary thought, about a guy in the videos - I WOULD NOT LIKE TO SEE A HALF NAKED GUY in the guitar lessons neither :eek:

Another thing you might want to take into consideration is that a good amount of teens are within this sight and some parents may get offended if there son/daughter is watching a guitar video and a half naked women pops up on the screen.

Anyway it's your site and you can do what you like, but this is just my opinion.

[EVH5150]

Ok, Vaxwell, no offense, but most guitar players are guys! I am not saying by any means it is wrong or strange for a chick to play guitar, there are plenty of great woman players, but the majority is going to be male. If we had a half naked guy (:eek: ) that would turn away a lot of peple searching on youtube.

[jacksondinky]

i my opinion i like the girl an i think its a good marketing strategy because maybe out of the 50% that arent guitar players that watch the vids maybe 10% are gonna watch it an say hey i could learn that or yeah now i wanna play the guitar now an thats how you get more members an hey whats good for dave an tim is good for us all

[disobedience]

Ok, Vaxwell, no offense, but most guitar players are guys! I am not saying by any means it is wrong or strange for a chick to play guitar, there are plenty of great woman players, but the majority is going to be male. If we had a half naked guy (:eek: ) that would turn away a lot of peple searching on youtube.


That's soo not true. Most guitar players that you know might be guys...but when you look at the demographics you'll find that it's a pretty even split.
Coming from a marketing background myself, I think that the girls should be taken out of the vids. Just my perspective. Or..as others have said..if you want to use it as a marketing tool..then you need to put both men and women in the vids. And I think we all know where that would go ;)

Just my 2 cents.

[pico1009]

Hi - I'm again

what happens now to me - my wife looked to my doing and she ask's me (in German - can't translate the propper Word's) 'where the Hell are you walking around in the Internet' :mad: :confused: :eek:

arghh - put the Girl's away pleease

PS as I wrote before - this trains the wrong Finger :lol:

[girlfromdixie]

Ok, Vaxwell, no offense, but most guitar players are guys! I am not saying by any means it is wrong or strange for a chick to play guitar, there are plenty of great woman players, but the majority is going to be male. If we had a half naked guy (:eek: ) that would turn away a lot of peple searching on youtube.


So that makes is ok to alienate the ones who are women? I found David's tutorial's through a link to one of his videos and if that video had been one with the "hot chick" cover pic, I wouldn't even have watched it. Luckily, it wasn't.

If people are interested in guitar playing, and the cover pic shows someone playing guitar (playing it... NOT, um...whatever it is she's doing) then those people will click the link, watch the videos, visit this site and stay. If people are only interested in the chick, they might click the link, but they won't stay.

One last point, and this is a biggie no matter if you are targeting guys, girls, or both, I just don't think it looks professional.

[EVH5150]

Ok, I may be wrong about the 'most guitar players are guys', it is just, the most guitarists I have met, or read posts or threads from are guys. Really, this forum is probably 80% male. But I don't know. What I was talking about was appealing to the masses, everybody does it.

[nlsstar]

this isn't my site, and everyone has the right to market their product as they see fit. Thats all part of someone's vision of their product. I've been in the marketing and promotion biz for the better part of 25 years. "Sex sells" and the new internet terminology "chicks=clicks" are proven marketing strategies. I don't think that can be argued. Some products or services lend themselves to this better than others. Actual guitars themselves and Bands have used a day rate hottie in their ads for years with alot of success. So have car dealers...but in my agency the "sex sells" tactic is considered "a last ditch effort, in lue of lack of an idea". Or as a Marketing Director I worked with called it.."the lowest common denominator". But it does work, this is probably the most active thread in the forum right now. So it covers the #1 rule of marketing.."provoke response"!...personally...i don't think it's needed, and i like to look at hot girls:) The one that pops up in the middle of the bass lesson...well that's just not nessicary...not as much because it's a girl..it just intrupts the flow of the lesson..could have been 15 secs of a blank screen(if you want to go the sopranos route) These are just meant as my personal observation and not meant to be deter you guys from your strategy.
Mitch

[sdolsay]

I've spent many hours looking at instructional video's online and not once have I saw a hot chick holding a guitar and had the thought, wow, I bet they can really teach.

You already have the best marketing tool for guitar instruction on the web, David Taub's teaching style and personality. I watched him for 5 minutes and knew that I had found something worth spending my time and money on.

Remember you have a variety of students here please don't alienate half of your serious clients to cater to some teenage boys holding something other than their guitar. Don't take the easy way, build up a great following with professionalism and respect for all your students.

Here is a question, if I took a private lesson with David does he have posters of half naked chicks on his studio walls? Does he have posters of half naked chicks on the outside of the door to attract students in?


You have a great thing going, I hope you test this and discard it as a tool, I'm staying either way but I still think you don't need it.

Scott

[Bigsnake]

I remember when it was asked, but I don't remember that many people complaining, I for one thought for marketing to all different people including different countries it would probably be better to drop them, but I read most of those posts and very few if any said that they were offended or anything like that.

I agree. You're limiting your audience by using them.

If you're wanting to use "sex" as a marketing thing, there are more subtle ways to do it.

[Cheese Shredder]

ozzy said i dont want a riff that will impress joe satrani give me a riff that will make a kid pick up a guitar......thats what dave and tim are doin.......if you take offense to the women in the corner then just dont watch that video....tim and dave are just tryin get more ppl to watch there videos....besides if you really want to learn what dave is teaching you will ignore the women on the side i hardly notice them when i am watching the videos........that is my 2 cents

keep rocking good people

[EVH5150]

Here is a question, if I took a private lesson with David does he have posters of half naked chicks on his studio walls? Does he have posters of half naked chicks on the outside of the door to attract students in?

Scott

He probably does, lol :)

[shiseido_red]

As a female guitar player, I just find the images ridiculous and unnecessary. I probably would have taken offense to them back in my days of being a 'super feminist', but I've just sort of learned to pick my battles now. I guess I just don't see why they need to be in there. As somebody already mentioned, it cheapens the videos and makes them look less professional. They're also a little distracting. Look at how many of us have already discovered NLG, just on the basis of David and Tim's talent alone. It just doesn't seem necessary to stoop to using such a cheesy marketing technique to bring more people in.

[ernieball80]

Yea guys I really dont care about what you use to advertise your information, I am not sure the video that all are complaining about, I might be thinking of something completely different, but I havent been offended, maybe when david sings sometimes(just kidding hahahaha) but never by the things said in the videos or objects shown.
later
ernie

[Jamie]

I like looking at hot girls (maybe a bit too much:o ) but I would personally take the images out. I don't care ether way, but I think there are quite a few people who wont like it. Especially parents who let their kids watch the videos.

Like I said it doesn't bother me at all, because the main thing for me is the lessons and learning more about playing guitar, but if you want NLG to look presentable to anyone, male, female, and kids then I think you should forget about adding the hot girl images.

[knoxville]

when ya stick it right in the middle of the lesson it is a bit distacting.. i mean when you go to burger king and buy a whopper they dont then bombard you with adverts for burger king.. you're already there..

[tim]

It looks to me that my test was not approved by the good people
that is the beauty of these forums,

So i will not be adding any more girls to the middle of the videos

ROCK ON
TIm

[Valhalla]

Thank you Tim for reading our responses :)

[Blewbyou]

I held off of saying anything to let the members voice their opinions and as I thought most everyone has the same opinion as I have ...............leave the girls out.

Thank you everyone for speaking up! Dis and I were talking about this the other night before the thread was posted. We both agreed that the girls cheapened (no reflection of the girls) the videos. Anyone watching the videos because of the girls are not interested in the teaching content of the videos!

[Jody]

So does that mean we are going to get a young hunky guy in a thong in the next vid :)

Just for testing purposes of course.....

[ez-one]

yes they already set up a photo shoot for Dis, he will be modeling one of the new NLG thongs:)

[nlsstar]

roflmao....."Thong the Todd!!!!".....lol....

[ez-one]

Heck, I might get demoted for saying that, but I just couldn't resist :) it seemed pretty funny to me at the time :)

[disobedience]

That's just wrong!
HAHAHA...Funny...but wrong :p

[Blewbyou]

hehe "Thong the Todd".................ewwwww photo shoot Todd dry humping a Strat in a thong. I wont be able to sleep with that image in my head

[nlsstar]

oh sure blew..you had to pick a strat!!!....now i can't play my guitar or even touch it!!!!....lol

[knoxville]

hehe "Thong the Todd".................ewwwww photo shoot Todd dry humping a Strat in a thong. I wont be able to sleep with that image in my head


Well you didnt have to share it with the rest of us... Sheesh!! :D :p

[Blewbyou]

Hey Mitch,

I own a Strat also I just finished wiping it down with alcohol!With that image burned into my brain I may sell it and get a Uke or banjo(but then again the whole Deliverance thing doesn't work either)! lol